We hope that the base plan will help to achieve one main objective, and that is to provide quality health care for critical treatments for those who can't afford it.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to InsuredSpeaks, I'm Shankari, co-founder of InsuredSpeaks and your host. Today in this podcast series, we bring together experts across the healthcare and insurance industry to talk about something that is very important and vital to all of us health insurance. If you're new here, InsureSpeaks is a review and rating platform that policyholders can share their insurance claim experiences and rate their health insurance providers. If you are a policyholder and have claim experience that you would like to share with us, please head to our website. In today's episode. Inside Malaysia’s insurance system from the advisor's front line. We are honored to be joined by Mr. Saseedaran. Mr. Sasee is a senior industrial leader and financial consultant with deep experience representing the interests of life insurance and family takaful advisors in Malaysia. As the immediate past president of National Association of Malaysian Life Insurance and Family Takaful Advisors, he plays a key role in shaping professional standards advisor education and industry dialogue, particularly on the rising cost of healthcare and the sustainability of insurance coverage.

He is currently a financial consultant and the founder of Seed Consultancy Practitioners, Mr. Sasee, Thank you so much for being here today.

Welcome, welcome. It's a pleasure to be here and to be part of your program.

Thank you so much. I see you're actively involved in financial education planning and conducting workshops in raising the professional standards of the advisors. Could you tell us more about it?

Well, I've been privileged since 1987 to be in this industry. I started off as a life insurance agent, and the industry by itself has evolved over the last 39 years since I came into this industry where I saw many things changing. For example, product designs have changed, companies being in mergers and acquisitions, having an insurance act in 1996 for the first time, and then having the regulator having policy documents and more and more compliances coming in and many other changes that I have seen along with one important change, that is the mindset of the consumers themselves about their reception towards insurance. So all these and of course add it on with my 30 over year service in the National Association of Life Insurance and Family Takaful Advices, till I led the association also gave me a a good exposure about the through understanding about the actual role of a life insurance advisor and how do you handle the expectations of the consumers that are getting more dynamic nowadays.

So I've been privileged to go through this evolution and we are still evolving. We are still evolving.

How has it been? You have been in the industry for over two decades right now. From when you started. And now how has it been shifting?

Okay. Basically at the base, nothing much has changed.

Because life insurance business. Life insurance is not bought. It is sold. So and it is sold through so many channels and the most profitable channel and the most productive channel to bring life insurance to the consumers is the agency channel. Life insurance agency channel. So what I've seen here is since there are changes and challenges coming in all the way in the industry, it always looks refreshed, refreshed, and I still find the industry as a very refreshed and new. It has so much potential to go forward, especially in this advent of AI. You know, how do you play your role as an intermediary with the support of artificial intelligence? That's going to be another game that we are preparing ourselves for actually now.

So all in all, I still feel it's a very fresh.

I see yeah, that's actually a very amazing perspective. Yeah. It has been one of the oldest, industry as well. So but the fact that, this new technology coming in and it's actually being always incorporated into the how it's being utilized and adapted by the consumers. Okay. So you have been involved in training advisors from your perspective, where do advisors most need upskilling?

Okay. Specifically. I can't mention anywhere because in a sales career, you have something called pre-sales activity, point of sales and post sales activities. What do you do? Prior to writing a case. That's called the sales cycle, for example. And doing the right things correctly. That skill. Yes, agents need to be upscaled in pre-sales activities, especially with the support of technology. Okay. That's how you see in TikToks and social media. A lot of people are approaching people, approaching the consumers or prospects through these platforms, because they want to capitalize on technology to, to do better on these pre-sales activities.

Well, I think a lot of insurance companies, not I think I know a lot of insurance companies, plow in a lot of effort to train their agents in sharpening their skills and knowledge to conduct their sales activities to the best to get the best result. Now the challenge is post sales activities. Post sales activities means what do you do in order to provide the relevant services to the consumers and keeping them in your books and being reliable and relevant for them for long run? You stick with them. They stick with you. That's clientele. Now here comes real time experience where though we have trainings on that. But I think effectively practical trainings has to be there. And insurance companies actually come about in propagating quality business through KPIs For example, if you have very high premium calculations of renewable business, then you will get better remuneration, for example. That's called persistency count. The purpose of persistency count is to ensure that the advisor conducts himself well under the post sales activities, providing the right services in order to ensure that clients stick with you and clients stick with you.

That becomes a quality client and for that, the insurance company remunerate you. So I feel that in terms of training, the post sales activities, we've got to expand the trainings further on that in order to have more quality consumers. Otherwise, we can see that the rate of attrition or lab session or what you call the surrendering of policies.

Especially with the premiums is rising right now. Yeah, so many policies.

Actually sad to see. Well, the one we can probably discuss further afterwards because that's the topic by itself, actually.

Okay. Yes. Okay, keeping on to the sales concept. Okay. Right now, there is a perception that insurance advisors are more sales driven than advisory driven because they actually represent a company, and they do talk about the products that they have. So how can a consumer please trust on the advisor advising advisors that they are being received?

So, well, sales driven, sales driven, nothing wrong by being sales driven actually because the business is such life insurance business is a business that's full of rejection. They say that if you meet five prospects and you close one case, you're good. Which means you have to see four rejections. So the more rejections you face, the more successful you will be. So that's one thing. So people are trained to face rejections, and that's why along the way they become very assertive and persistent in their activities. That may create a perception that they are very, you know, sales driven. It's okay to be sales driven, but that's, I don't like to use the word pushy. Actually, that persistence is not just to chalk a sale for the advisor at the expense of a consumer and not fulfilling the actual actual need of the consumer. That's bad. But being sales driven and doing the right things correctly for the benefit of the consumer and for everyone for a win win situation. I think that's fine. So, for your question about being sales revenues, That's okay. Now, reliance on the agent.

Reliance trust, as I mentioned just now, it's a process. Post sales activities when someone has taken up an insurance policy advised as per the advisor's advice, and the advisor pays attention to that and continues advocating the purpose of that purchase, and to make sure that the consumer still remembers what he bought for and why he bought that policy for. And looking at the affordability for a long run, that this consumer should be able to afford the premium for a long run so that the policy sustains. So being transparent and providing best advice, making it a practice of back. The best advice all the time. That will certainly earn the trust of the consumers. Personal experience. So gaining trust has to be one of the prominent focus of every advisor, so that customer is converted to become a client. The difference is that when you convert a customer into becoming a client, the client sticks with you. You stick with the client. It's actually a kind of partnership business, and that's what an advisor should strive for.

And for that, he has to earn the trust. In order to earn the trust, he has to make sure he gives the best advice in order to give the best advice. He should have enough knowledge. In order to have enough knowledge, he should be exposed to continuous learning.

This is what you are bringing in young people. Okay. Speaking about reliance, the fact is, when someone purchases the insurance, the reliance on the insurance agent posts activity happens. So, that's the confidence as well. As you say, trust. I trust the insurance agent that he has done his job. Well, that's why at the point of sale have happened. And then when something do happen, a calamity or a crisis, the first thing I do actually is not look at the dashboard. I actually will call up the insurance agent. This thing happened. What should I do? looking at the whole scenario, the fact is the advisors do play a very important, a very significant role because they at that point, they are like a savior.

They are guidance like the guidance is from them. You should go here, do these, do that. That's what people are expecting. But they are also the first person says skip. Good. Any problem. My insurance agent say this and some I cannot claim what is going on. What are your thoughts on this?

Okay, well, as an intermediary, you can't run away from this situation. Actually, you know why? Whatever. Okay. Whatever it is, a life insurance advisor is an intermediary between the principal insurer and the consumer. And there is a heap of expectation on the intermediary advisor. The company expects the advisor to bring in sales. That's why you are there because the consumer expects the advisor to always give him a successful experience when it comes to claims or whatever inquiries. That's the expectation you can't run away from. And you're right. When things go right, then probably the advisor is praised and appreciated for a while.

And it will go on for the next generation. Like, yes.

But at the same time, if just say, a minor claim is, you know, not approved due to reasons that probably the advisor himself wasn't aware of or the consumer wasn't able to. You know,

I mean, rising premiums is something no one is.

I suspect that's another thing. Okay, so there comes, you know, violation of expectation, and then the punching bag is the advisor. Now you brought up the issue of premium increase. You call it as a repricing exercise of medical premiums. it's not only in Malaysia many countries. I'm not saying it's a good news. Well it's, it's a very heavy burden especially for aging societies. And of course the first person to to receive the brickbats from the consumer is the advisor. The advisor. So. what can we do to minimize this sort of impacts? Negative impacts facing, the intermediary. The first thing is, I think at the point of sale, the intermediary must make the consumer understand that medical premiums are open to increase. They are not fixed.

And having a medical insurance is not a red carpet walk into any private hospital. Having a medical insurance is also you got to manage it with responsibility responsibly. How and why? Many people misunderstood. People misunderstood in managing their medical insurance. If you have a cough and cold, you think you want to be admitted to check your whole body. Okay. You can do wonders to, you know, convince the medical practitioner to admit you for a day or two to, you know, go through all the check and all that, but who's going to pay for it eventually? It's a consumer. It's coming back now. It's boomerang.

You see, on one side, medical premiums have got reasons that we can understand why the premiums are going up on the other side. We also know the limitations behind, at the back limitations faced by the authority itself in curbing the, you know, ever increasing, cost of healthcare. and of course, the agent has to answer if the consumer bought it through the agent.

But do you think that this is a systemic problem?

It is.

But the agents has to be the one answering.

That's why the agent has to bear with it. Because you can purchase medical insurance online. Yes, but the comfort is to have a, you know, human touch so that another human being provides you the service. So it's a comfort, actually, it's personal attention that you have. So you don't mind taking an insurance from an agent because the agent advises you rather than purchasing a policy online. And you, you know, they have a lot of, what you call the policy conditions, the schedules of benefits, the exclusions, disclosures, many things. Consumers don't go through that all the time. They don't go through. the advisor should highlight to them. Yes. It's not easy, but it's part of your job. However, even after highlighting all this to them, it's not a guarantee that the consumer will remember all this. Okay, so it's always a challenging position for an intermediary.

Actually, when it comes to set stories like this, that is increased premiums and the the agent or the advisor got to, answer for it where he doesn't have the answer, actually, but it's just a comfort providing some comfort and trying to explain, trying his best to explain on behalf of the insurance company. So all in all, we should also appreciate the role of the, you know, life agent. Yeah. The advisor for, you know, keeping the heat down. But of course, the challenge has been too great for many people who couldn't cope with the ever increasing premium, especially when they're ageing. You know, when you're 60 and you feel that the premium is so high, is that something like when you need it the most and you don't have it, you know.

Especially those people that have bought the policies maybe 10 or 20 years ago. Now is the time. They should be more relaxed knowing that they are protected. At this point, they are facing the lab session.

I think it's not just a sad story for the consumers. The agents also didn't expect when they were drafting.

Even insurance companies. They also don't like to do all these things. The insurance companies also try their best not to burden the policyholders who wants to do that with the right frame of mind. But you don't have much choice actually, because the pool of policyholders or you call them as risks is just ever increasing and the cost is increasing. And at the back of it is, the cost of healthcare increases. The cost of healthcare means there are two things. One will be the professional charges, which are regulated. The other one is the non professional charges which are not regulated. the hospital charges and the pharmaceutical charges. Now, these two charges contribute a lot to the ever increasing, you can say medical inflation, actually. And it's not only confined to Malaysia overall throughout the world, and especially after the pandemic, you see that there were countries that were having the best health care system and they too collapsed. So basically, the world, basically the human world is getting less healthier. And as such, healthcare becomes more prominent. And not only that, governments are finding it difficult to provide high quality public health care services, saying that I would really congratulate Malaysia. You see, we have one of the best public healthcare. You can say that, disbursement, if you want to see a doctor in any hospital, in any clinics you walk in, you can, you can see, but you will not have this privilege in another developed country.

All the past speakers, all of them have said the same thing. We have exceptional government hospitals. That is a fact. That is a fact.

What we need to see is we as we are all consumers, right? Yeah. Is for the allocations into healthcare to expand further, reduce elsewhere and increase on healthcare because it's inevitable you need it. You need to have you see the staffing in for example, the retaining back, the specialist medical offices.

The government is basically drained out. People are leaving to the private sector. Now the challenge is how to hold.

Keep them okay. You house them. Well even hospitals do not have them. They are lagging of trained staff nurses. So are housing the hospital with enough manpower skills on, you know specialist medical officers, support staffs. All these are very important. And then the cost of pharma, pharmaceuticals. Also, I think the government is trying their best to do a lot of things to, you know, to delay the ever increasing health care cost. Even, they come up with a new system called the Diagnostic Drug Diagnosis Related Group. This is basically you are opening up a big statistics about the charges for different treatments, at different places, so that the, the there is a basic guidance on what treatment will cost, how much.

So it would be a standardised pricing across.

It may take some time because you need a lot of information, a lot of data to collect.

A year or two, I don't know. But this is what I did in my engagement with the authorities. This is what I hear. It may take a year or two for them to have a real, you know, enough information, enough data, to settle down to a certain amount of, quantifying, you know, quantifying certain treatments. So when you have all that, at least, there is an initiative to curb the ever increasing healthcare cost. So, let's have high hopes on this.

Yes. But then again, with the most people right now with, who cannot afford private healthcare have to go to the government hospitals. Yes. There's another aspect where the government hospital are being overwhelmed right now, this new influx of patients so you can only hope for the best. We are going towards the right direction. Now we're talking about DRG and then the, the, the rollout of the new medical plans, and tabung negara. So yeah, I think it's all positive. keeping high hopes.

It's it's actually very important for the year to see initiatives coming up. And of course, when the new base plan is being introduced, we were privileged to get to know about it. The,, you know, the contents of the benefits and, you know, but of course, it is not officially launched anywhere. But knowing that, we know that it has a lot to catch up with, but it's the right step towards the right direction. It's good. You have to start off somewhere. Through, through through the Industry association. I was privileged also to make a presentation in the Parliament, and this was what we were advocating. Basically, and we are happy that at least, what we advisors were advising, parliamentarians in Parliament, sort of a bit heated. And then, that's what we are seeing happening now. We hope that the base plan will help to achieve one main objective, and that is to provide quality healthcare for critical treatments for those who can't afford what the insurance companies are charging today.

And they are charging it not because they wanted to charge it. They have to charge it that way. So hopefully there is a, you know, a chance for people who could not afford those big premiums at least to go for lower limits, and that's still okay. 100,000 ringgit a year, you can still manage a lot of things at the moment. Yes, for an aging person. But it's not the best. But it's at least something good and it's moving. That's what we see. We want to see initiatives unlike, always hearing that. Well, we've got to wait and see. We've got to do studies. We got to do research. So I wish to congratulate the Madani government. Actually, I think they are trying to do something for us. Let the record support this and let it come through. And we see how it grows from here. Everything got to evolve. Yes. And to the next maybe. Who knows? Just like in the private. Just like we say that we have one of the best public health care systems one day, we can also boast that we also have both a very balanced public and private health care system, where the right is getting one of the best deals around.

We hope for that kind of, you know, eventually it is. So let's see how.

Let's see how it goes. Okay. Just now we were talking about consumers' understanding on the policy content itself. In your experience, what are the common misunderstandings they have either about the coverage and, and how are they what's the misunderstandings they have?

All right. Firstly, the types of products that you have today. For example, if you are purchasing medical insurance, you can purchase it as a standalone medical insurance from a life insurance company or a general insurance company. And when I use the word insurance, it also includes takaful.

Okay. Let's go for that understanding. When I say insurance for convenience sake. But it's both insurance and takaful. now. So when you want to purchase a medical insurance from a life insurance company, you can choose either you want to purchase just a standalone medical insurance or as a medical rider in a basic life insurance policy. Okay, now purchasing medical insurance as a rider or as a rider with a life insurance policy, there are two types of life insurance policies.

One is called traditional life insurance policy. The other one is called investment link policy. Now the treatment of your premium will be different here.

All right. Now all these are very, very difficult for the consumer to understand. But the advisor got to do his best.

What are the difference?

If you purchase a life insurance, a medical insurance in a traditional life insurance product, generally that rider medical rider premium will increase according to age band example every five years. Once your premium will increase your medical premium, but your life premium will stay fixed. So what you experience is every five years, your premium will increase because the medical portion, the medical insurance portion is increasing. That's a bundle, a traditional bundle, which is not encouraged. Many companies have pulled out. And in fact, you have this policy document from Bank Negara that was on medical health insurance and takaful implemented in 2024. that does not want this kind of bundles anymore. Why? probably because the costings.

And not only that, the insurance companies are having greater burdens, you know, in managing the whole bundle. This way it becomes a very big burden actually for the insurer. Now, on the other side, investment link policy where you add on a medical rider now at at the face. Okay. You will be paying an X amount of premium whereby it gives you life insurance coverage and medical insurance coverage. And the premium looks fixed and flat. But at the back end, actually it's not fixed and flat. The cost of insurance will increase every year, and the money that's invested, the portion of your premium that is invested in through these funds that you have taken in the investment policies, the returns will cover for the increasing premium every year, the cost of insurance every year. And the time will come where the account value in the policy. Cannot sustain the next increased cost of insurance because of the medical repricing. That's where the whole premium goes up. Yeah. So the consumer got to understand that if he is purchasing a medical rider inside a that is packaged inside an investment plan, then the risk factors are like this.

Or if you have purchased in the past a medical rider in a traditional life insurance policy, this is the deal that you have. But whether you choose a medical rider, as a package with a traditional policy or an investment policy, the fact today is all are repriced. Okay. Okay.

That is inevitable.

Inevitable. That's one misunderstanding people have in terms of you see, when I explain to you also, you need to really pay attention to what I'm saying.

Yes, exactly.

You imagine how the consumer will have to, you know.

Yes. And then the cost of insurance, I'm thinking from what is the cost of insurance in this case? How is this different? Okay.

Basically the cost of insurance means the cost of covering you for the sum insured. So if you've taken a million ringgit coverage cost of covering that some issue. Okay. And then you have critical illness included the coverage the cost of insurance, all these costs are actually, borne by those units that you purchase every month when you pay a premium, if you're paying a monthly premium or yearly, your premium buys units.

That's why you call it as investment policies. So it's called unit deductible deducting rider.

Okay. You use those units to deduct the cost of your rider coverages.

I see. Okay. Right. So the money is gone. is put into the investment portion. And the investment portion covers the protection part, the coverage.

To go deeper, you have allocated premiums in unallocated premiums. Allocated premiums means the money that you allocate to invest in the in the, in the market and allocation unallocated amount will take care of the rest of the expenses, including cost of insurance, but say over a period of 6 or 7 years depends on the policy design. 100% of the premium that you pay goes into allocation, and the returns from the okay will have to manage all the cost. So that is why in an investment link illustration, enough information is given to alert the consumer of the risk factors that they carry when they purchase these products. Nothing is guaranteed. So they have been alerted. But how many people will really? Yeah.

That's why the misunderstanding comes there. Yeah. The product designs. Another thing is the scope of coverage, especially in medical scope of coverage. Even in small claims like accident cases, people thought that, you know, it's very easy to claim it's not. So you got to justify and it has to fall within the, you know, scope of coverage, even, determining the. The definition of total and permanent disability, for example, is all stated very clearly in the policy document. But yet, people misunderstand.

Do people read the policy?

Well, a good adviser will read and explain each part. Yes.

But the policy document usually is like 60 to 100 pages.

Yes. Yes. You summarize you have to do it because one thing we know out of experience, I tell you, out of 100 clients, probably 1 or 2 will read through in detail. And even when they read two pages, they can't stop asking you 20 questions. You know, there's so many things to ask, and they themselves stop after they know that, oh, I can't bear this man.

Because even the terms like that's not co-insurance you need deducting rider. This is terms that is used to describe. But I think when you're reading that in a sentence, you'll be like, I still don't understand.

That's why to to to make it easy, rely on the advisor.Now you know why people rely so easily on advisors, right? They can be very highly educated or average. But, the phenomenon is still the same. I can't say it's good or bad, but I would just say that if at all, they were served with best advice all the time, things would be fine. Okay. That's the key. Word is best advice all the time. That's the challenge that every advisor faces. Sometimes we also will not know what will be the best advice, because the bad advice, the best advice might become a bad advice. So anyway, that's the challenge. There are many other misunderstandings, actually. Like, for example, even in the declaration of the commission.

In the illustration, some people may misunderstand. They think that an adviser can be highly, you know, overly paid or which is not actually, but they are. When you give people too much of information, too much of misunderstandings also.

Okay. That doesn't mean you should not give them too much of information. I think information is important. At the same time, how this information is translated into proper understanding, that's the challenge. So misunderstandings will go on happening. Especially like medical. I think the highest amount of misunderstanding lately that we are coming across is in medical school. Yes, people, as I mentioned earlier just now, this morning, a medical insurance is not a red carpet for you to enter any private hospital to utilize it to, to flush it around like a, you know, benefit card. And, for you to make good use of those limits for whatever reason. No, it's not that, People thought that even for a simple cough and cold, they want to be admitted, for example, you know.

I mean, that's a misunderstanding. They thought it's there, right? Many people treat medical insurance. the benefit as a solemn right to get the best attention, even for the most trivial, health challenge that they have, which I am saying is. I mean, they are not wrong when they say they are right or privileged, but since they said I'm paying for it, I want the best.

So the expectation is very high. Yeah. So again, the fundamental lying thing is the misunderstanding as well. Yeah. Not knowing where, when, should the medical card actually be applied. In what cases?

Yes. You see, in my experience, I advise employers actually when I, when I, when I provide corporate solutions, I advise employers to advise their employees or even encourage them to, organize a session talk session for me to explain about this medical benefit to the employees, and to tell them that they have to be responsible enough, though it's their right or their privilege to, you know, utilize the medical insurance, but do it with a sense of responsibility and know the consequences.

If the claim ratio goes very high, the premiums are going to increase, and eventually the employee is going to give up that benefit for the employees. So it's not easy, but sometimes you can't avoid someone who can get a heart attack and there goes his annual limit. If the limits are small you know. So that's the scenario for employee benefits. What about individual policies? It's about the same. Now if the premium has gone so high and then overall the company has to reprice probably you your premium is going to go higher by 20%. 30% depends on your age. Actually there are even situations where premiums increased almost 100%. Some people have complained. You know, we have actually read the press actually. So these are those.

Everyone needs to play a social responsibility as well, not to abuse the facilities that are there.

That's the reason deductibles and co-sharing formulas came about. And I encourage that actually if you have deductibles. For example one admission in a year that you need to pay the deductible can be 1500 ringgit.

Whatever deductible that you choose. But that shows that you are actually bearing a certain percentage of the responsibility.

This will also prevent them from going for trivial matters.

Exactly. You are right. And coinsurance for example coinsurance co-payment. All these are under code sharing. That means the insurance company pays a X percentage and then the consumer base Y percentage. This is to deter irresponsible manner of using medical insurance and also to deter high claim ratios. So, I mean, they have got to do something to curb. Yeah.

As we, our population is adding to a aging population. Okay. And there's also the situation where 340,000 people has, labs policy lab session. What can they do now? Actually, just to mitigate their is just a bit. What what should they be considering? Is there another method? What should they be doing now?

First and foremost. Those policies that were lapsed or were not renewed. I'm made to understand from the, you know, various sources That this were actually mainly from general insurance and general takaful companies, where people have purchased medical insurance from these general insurance and takaful companies.

And so it's not from the life insurance they are.

They are. But what I'm saying is many policies from this portfolio general insurance and general takaful, the Lap session went high at the same time under the life insurance portfolio. Those people who were aging, especially when the those people with pre-existing condition claim, action, claim experience, their premiums also jumped very high. Sometimes I've even seen by, you know, my, my own self it's, almost 80% premium increase and, they could not afford and they could not lower their coverage any further because they took the smallest one and they could not afford it. So now I hope this is another hope. When this base plan is being introduced, at least a window period of those who have lapsed or surrendered their policy says, for example, for example, let's imagine this if Bank Negara says that IFA from those who have lapsed or surrendered their medical insurance between 1st January 2024 to today, all of them can migrate to the base plan. Even with pre-existing health conditions.

But it has to be controlled. That's what the latest report, the latest press release mentioned about the base plan can consider people with pre-existing illnesses which are under control. That means if you are a diabetic, your proper medication and your diabetes is under control, which means that you have to prove to the insurance company that you are okay. You know, you're under control. So if this can be extended to policies that were lapsed from, say, 1st January 2024, because that's where the real impact started, actually. So at least these people can now consider.

Something to consider.

That's one hope I have. Second, if they can't afford that also and or the insurers are not able to cater for that, then no choice. They have to, go to the government hospitals. In fact, my advice is, any Malaysian, you can be rich, you can be poor, you can afford medical insurance or you might not. required to visit KCM and open up a file there.

Register yourself from time to time. Visit, visit and get yourself checked. So along the years when your health isn't really supporting you, you have your records there. And of course it's by by priority. You may also be referred to specialists, you know, in time and along the way, whatever challenges happen that you have to let go of your medical insurance because of, you know, affordability issues. At least you have opened up a channel at the public health care to get the specialist attention on the other side. So the advice to everyone, including rich people, I would say. Open up a record in the government hospital or government clinic. Just go. You know, of course people don't go to hospital if they are not sick. Correct?

The next time you are sick, just go and open up a file there. Whether you continue your treatment there or not. It's another issue. It's simply, as you know, there's insurance when you do not have any insurance here. This is the insurance. Public health care. It's the insurance. So we have we have that. So why not make good use of it. Yes. So you know.

I think that is a very good message.

It's a practical thing, actually.

A practical thing. But I think the fear somewhat clouds what is available out there when we do have all the facilities. So I think just giving a clear way would be a chance. Hopefully this podcast can reach the intended audience.

Of course. Of course, the government can't cater everything for everyone at one time. Yes, there's always a limitation, but it's better to go this way than not having it at all.

Okay, that's very true. Okay. As we wrap up, what is the one message you like to leave with our audience who is watching this podcast?

All right. Now, let me speak from my heart. If you are an advisor, if you are a life insurance advisor and you're watching this podcast, please understand one thing.

Best advice? Practice will never let you down. Make sure you give the best advice to your consumers all the time. If you are a consumer. Please put in more effort to understand life insurance and family takaful and find out what's the best deal or the lowest premium for the highest coverage. Let me tell you now, dear consumers, life insurance companies are experts in providing you coverage protection. Make good use of that. Pay full attention to what we are good at. Now, if you are an employee or in the management of insurance and takaful companies and you are watching this podcast. I, I know it's not easy, but I'm watching this every day back in my own company. But always, we hope that there must be a balance between capitalism and socialism. Do your best to share this with your shareholders. Because insurance, the idea of insurance is more towards socialism and insurance business has to be capitalism, a capitalist business. Without capital you can't do anything. But there must be a balance. So I hope that we hold this together and keep life insurance and family takaful reachable, affordable and sustainable at all times.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Mr. Saseei, for your insights today. It's very inspiring to have you here with us today, and we hope our viewers learn something about the role advisors play in today's insurance ecosystem and what you can do to improve your own experience to protect you and your family. Stay tuned for more upcoming episodes in our series InsuredSpeaks. Thank you so much.